Rv:6:1: And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see

Thye first Horseman, Conquest:

Rv:6:2: And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Rv:6:3: And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

The second Horseman, War:

Rv:6:4: And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

The third Horseman, Famine:

Rv:6:5: And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

Rv:6:6: And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

Rv:6:7: And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.

The fourth Horseman, Death:

Rv:6:8: And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Of course, the Horseman of Highlander aren't the Horsemen of the Apocalypse, as Kronos and Co. existed sometime before Rev. was written. But, the comparison holds true to *teachur*'s interpretation. Methos, who planned their raids is "Conquuest." Silas who loved to watch the eyes of his enemy as they died is "War." Caspian who delighted in suffering is "Famine." And, Kronos who loved death is "Death." Kronos wanted power over everyone, death is the only thing that has such power.

Actually, if you go back to the ancient Greek texts, like we did (hoping that we could use the actual names -- but they weren't very dramatic as names), each of the Horsemen in Revelation 6 is called "Death" -- however, each time, the writer uses a different Greek word meaning "Death" -- in the same way that "eros" and "agape" both mean "love" in ancient Greek, but signify different kinds of love -- one more sexual, one more platonic. 

When you translate the sublties of the Greek, you get these four guys -- Death by War, Death by Starvation, Death by Disease, Death by Wild Animals. Dramatically, I guess that last method wasn't as interesting as his brothers, so over time he seemed to become just "Death" in the pop culture grouping of "War, Famine, Pestilence and Death." 

Donna

but am still a bit confused...are we talking about 6:2- 6:8? the only greek word meaning death is thantos which occurs in 6:8 twice (hades could be used to mean death but in this passage it is translated as hell - a place) or just 6:8's grouping of rhomphasia (a large sword), limos, (hunger) thanatoes (death), and therion (beasts) all used as ways death (thantos) will destroy?

I'm going to refrain from commenting about the theory about the 'beasts of earth' transmuting into death...

Two and a half years ago when I actually did this research, I could have matched you declension for declension. But, as all that was thrown out when the show closed 18 months ago, I guess I'll just have to accept your translations over those of the learned professors we worked with at UCLA at the time. 

Guess you get to win this one by default, 'cause I'm not doing it again just for you. 

Donna

Credit Gillian Horvath's hot tub *g*. As early as Season 4, Gillian and I would relax after work in her hot tub, which was near the office, and throw around potential story ideas. One that we wanted to do involved someone (at the time, we were thinking Ceirdwyn) Duncan respected as much or more than Methos coming after Methos because of the bastard he'd been at some point in his past. We always knew that in 5,000 years Methos had probably lived a thousand lifetimes, had been just about every kind of man it was possible to be -- both good and evil. Now it was time for Duncan to realize that. 

When Cassandra was thrown into the mix in Season 5, it became obvious that the story didn't have to be confined to Ceirdwyn's short 2,000 year lifespan, but could go back even further, almost into the mystical. I don't remember who suggested the band of marauders -- who each fit a standard dramatic storytelling archetype: the leader, the brains, the crazy one, the slow but strong one (check out any band of merry men) -- but I do believe it was David A who proposed the theory that it was this band of legendary raiders who would supply the image for St. John's writings hundreds of years later. 

However, the actual "War, Famine, Pestilence, Death" affiliations didn't come until A) Peter altered his lines for a couple of takes in "Horsemen" and that's what the editors went with, and B) Adrian decided to add the virus/monkey plot to "Revelation." 

Donna

"Were you in London when the plague struck, Caspian? I was." Actually, you know very little about Kronos' past, only the small bits that were shown in flashback. But, it's very possible he only got into the disease thing later on because the legends said he did. "I'll bring them the thing they fear the most..." 

In the real world, battles/massacres/natural disasters/etc. in an area are breeding grounds for diseases like cholera, typhoid, etc., even today. They also tend to destroy crops and other food supplies. Historically, the coming of raiders like the Horsemen to an area was sure to leave both disease and starvation in their wake. While we enlightened types of the end of the 20th Century may understand what causes this to happen, I can see where the myth could develop that pestilence and famine were among the weapons of the Horsemen. 

Donna

* NEW: Thank you for taking the time to answer..

Carole -- Monday, 22 March 1999, at 8:44 p.m.

o NEW: Re: Thank you for taking the time to answer..

Donna Lettow -- Monday, 22 March 1999, at 9:34 p.m.

Close. It was two separate occurances -- Peter's version of the lines. And then Adrian deciding to use biological instead of conventional weapons as Kronos' arsenal. 

However, it was always intended that these guys were the genesis of the Horsemen legends. We just didn't start out to assign them their particular roles within the Horsemen. 

Donna