The apocalypse is part of the Nag Hammadi Papyri, a Coptic text c.3-5 cent. a.d. which is a translation of an earlier GREEK text part of which is ascribed to an author called "ADAM". They are Gnostic i.e.relating to or possessing spiritual or intellectual knowledge. That would fit Adam Pierson to a "T".

On a more blasphemous note: the rider on the white horse is sometimes interpreted as being Jesus Christ. Throw that immortal thing in and you've opened up a real hornets nest.

Methos lied as only the most practiced liar does...by telling as much of the truth as possible so as to make his victim (MacLeod) believe him. How much of what he told MacLeod is true we'll see but he was not "Death"...Kronos was. I think it's more than significant during Mac's flashback that Kronos chooses a scythe (the traditional symbol of Death) over his sword to kill Mac saying "The old ways are best". Methos told people over and over in these eps. "You don't know me." We can't believe he is "death" just because he says so. How many times has he admitted, quite matter-of-factly, that he lied? Didn't Joe say at some time in reply to "Methos said." "And you believe him?" And during the exchange between Methos and Kronos, Kronos says "Why should I believe anything you say." Who better than Kronos, his brother who knows him better than he does himself, would know Methos for being a liar? We know he is the master manipulator. If it served his purpose to tell Mac he was "Death" to get the needed reaction and desired results he would. And in a way he was right. All four horsemen were death. It would have gained him nothing to say 'Well, I was the Power actually, Kronos was Death". It wouldn't have had the effect he needed to get Duncan to do what he wanted him to or to predict Duncan's actions. Methos didn't need Duncan's forgiveness or understanding. He needed Duncan to kill Kronos for him.

The four horseman of the apocalypse are generally portrayed as:

Power or Conquest on a white horse.

Violence or War on a red horse.

Poverty or Famine on a black horse.

Death on a Pale horse.

When I watched the rerun tonight Methos was on the white horse and Kronos was on a palomino or pale horse. AND Kronos tells Cassandra "Methos never liked the idea of killing you...but I did." Sounds more like Kronos was the one who killed just becaused he liked it. That makes Methos the conqueror(rapist). And he could also be interpreted as "Power" since he was the master strategist of the team. But he was NOT the leader. It is very apparent that although the four may be brothers it is Kronos that is the Alpha Male of this pack. Methos may have been willing to forego Caspian in his plans but that still doesn't make him the leader, just a strategist.

Go back to the fountain (with it's four horses) and watch what colors are used to disarm the bomb. This still fits the color-wire theory but Kronos is "Death". Caspian, Silas and Methos follow his lead.The three are subservient to his wishes. The three: white, black and red serve the wishes of the leader: Death

And don't forget the scythe that Kronos picks up in mac's flashback...the symbol of Death.

Methos is also the oldest of the bunch. Kronos takes great pleasure in the fact that even though Methos is the oldest immortal Kronos still calls the tunes. How did he get mixed up with this bunch? Immortals may have been few and far between. When these guys started teaming up they may not have gotten to the extremes of brutality they now practice routinely. Perhaps Caspian was the last to join and his unique personality poisoned the group. Which may be why Methos wouldn't regret losing him. Caspian is a loose cannon, unpredictable. Methos would hate that. Whereas Silas is a predictable as the sun. No wonder he and Methos were the closest. They may have even been together first, then joined by Kronos who took over as leader, intimidating Methos easily, then Caspian shows up and all hell breaks loose.

Duncan's change in attitude in pt. II? Doesn't the old hot-head always calm down and listen to reason when he cools off? And he can't save the world without Methos. And he always believes he can get a person to change for the better...or at least gives them a chance to. I think Methos counts on that when he manipulates everyone to get his way: Death to Kronos and his own safety. (He's been hiding from the guy for centuries.) Wow, a two-fer.

I think Metho's plan was to have Duncan take out Kronos "the heart" (as Cassandra puts it). Without Methos "the brains", the horsemen are impotent. He doesn't care if Caspian dies, but sincerely regrets the necessity of killing Silas. He never planned to kill any of them (the old coward) but leave it to a woman to muck things up. And heartless, ungrateful Cassandra wants to repay him by taking his head. Even after he saves her four times: 1. by bringing her to the camp and making her his personal servant. 2. By allowing her to escape. 3. By rescueing her from Kronos at the power plant. 4. By confronting and killing Silas. At least time gives Mac a cooler head and calmer reason after a bit. Cassandra holds a 3,000+ year old grudge. I am ashamed of my sex.

I've read a lot of discussion about what Methos' motives were in CaH and Rev and I haven't seen anyone else come up with my theory. So here goes. 

Most of you are being too kind to Methos, when you say he knew MacLeod would kill Kronos. I don't think he knew who would win. Methos is a survivor, he said so to Cass. He was playing both sides. He may have stopped the fight in CaH to save Duncan, not Kronos, because "it could have gone either way, I couldn't take the chance". But when he found out Kronos had the virus and Silas had not changed, his only ally was Duncan. Still, if Methos was to survive he couldn't take sides. He told Duncan about the fountain, but he also went along with Kronos. How could he expect Duncan to survive both Caspian and Silas? He didn't, he told Cass, MacLeod was dead. Methos may have wanted Kronos dead, but HE did not want to cross him. Duncan accused Methos of manipulating events to get Duncan to kill Kronos and that may have been true, but he still tried not to appear to be taking Duncan's side. Like he said, he goes with the winner. That's how he has SURVIVED so long. I think the pained expession on his face as he raises his sword to Silas, is not just that Silas was a brother, but also that Methos had to finally take sides. He could no longer play the cat and mouse game and there was no other way to save Cass. He was taking a huge risk, not just in fighting Silas, but if Duncan lost, he would have to fight Kronos as well. It was probably the first time he did anything to defy Kronos. I think he really cared for her, then and now, but just because a kidnapper cares about his victim, does not mean the victim feels the same way. They made reference to the Stockholm syndrome and Patty Hearst, to explain why Cass had seemed to care for Methos, but handing her over to Kronos was the ultimate betrayal. I think Cassandra's actions are understandable in this light, even if it has been a looooog time. 

Anyway, I'll get down off my soapbox now. My main point is that Methos was doing what he had to in order to survive. How do you think he got to be the oldest living immortal in the first place?

I've been having Methos withdrawl, so I need to flap my gums about him for a while. Now that I've received my Season 3 tapes, I've had the chance to watch "Methos" and "Finale 1&2" repeatedly... I've some interesting observations on how our ROG has changed over the seasons.

In "Methos", you meet the man. He looks awfully young and terribly innocent to be 5,000+ years old. He also seems to be more of a sage, saying things like "You cannot fight my battles for me." and "Live, Highlander... grow stronger... fight another day." He offers his head to MacLeod in the interest of the greater good, but he also says he would have killed MacLeod if he could. Interesting insight into this budding character. 

Since that first encounter, we've learned a bit more about this innocent looking boy. In "Finale", he insists that he's "just a guy". He still has that innocent little boy look (I think it's the hair), but you catch a glimpse of his outlook on life. "Empires rise and fall..." he says, seemingly unconcerned that immortals are about to be exposed to the world. Actually, I think he finds it a little humorous. He teases MacLeod while the Highlander agonizes over whether or not to offer his head to Kalas... "Ahh, the passion of youth!" When Mac insists that "The world is not an ant farm!", you can almost hear Methos thinking "Oh yes it is!" Still, he seems rather innocuous. 

The next time we see him (forgive me if I'm mistaken) is in "Chivalry". Here, he suddenly appears in Seacouver to warn Mac of the presence of his ex-psycho-lover and her involvement with Richie. This being the fourth season, he's matured (shorter hair, I think). He looks closer to Duncan's age... and his attitude has undergone some minor changes. He seems more sarcastic, more cynical, more... well... Methos. He's grown comfortable with Joe and MacLeod (as himself, rather than Adam Pierson), and feels free to be himself, rather than trying to be the wise old man (well, I suppose he still does that in his own acid way).

In the fourth season and the beginning of the fifth, we see Methos become more three-dimensional. He's not just a paper character anymore, stuck in there to give ONH something to do. He's becoming an integral part of the show. This is the Methos we have all grown to know and love (and hate sometimes). In his subsequent episodes, "Timeless", "Deliverance", "Through a Glass Darkly", "Methuselah's Gift","Till Death", "Judgement Day", "One Minute to Midnight", "The Messenger", "Valkyrie", we see the old guy survive the spectrum of emotions... love, joy, pain, sadness, greif, fear, self-hatred... the list goes on. We get to know him as a man, someone with a good heart and a sharp wit. 

Then, in "Comes a Horseman" and "Revelation 6:8", we discover that our beloved ROG was not always the good person he tries to be now (Yes, he may act the jerk sometimes, but he's a good person!). We find that millenia ago, he was a murderer, a thief, and a rapist. We wonder why we liked him so much. In the end, he does the right thing, but does the end justify the means? The fact is brought home extremely hard. We've seen it before, but not as clearly. Our Methos is a lying, manipulative son-of-a-gun. Still, we love him, and we anxiously await his return. Will his friendship with MacLeod survive? 

In summation... Five thousand years can put a lot of facets on a guy. My complements to the writers for bringing that out over the past few years.

More, please! More!

=Mousie= *worshiper at the altar of Methos*

: : There were two pale horses one was pale green and the other was white

: : The pale green horse's rider was death

You're both right, sort of. The Greek word from John's Revelation is "chloros" = a yellowy-green, bilious color, as in sickness or pestilence. Another interpretation of chloros I found is "the pallor of death". I guess palomino or buckskin is the HL interpretation for "chloros". There are precedents in artistic depictions of the 4-Horsemen. That may have been what they were going on. 

RE: Death: Interestingly enough, the Greek word for death and the name of the 4th Horseman is "thanatos", which can, depending on the context, mean pestilence or death by pestilence, and is sometimes specifiacally used to refer to the bubonic plague, the "Black Death". It is perfect for Kronos, in view of his attempt to release a deadly virus in the 20th century.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't seem to stop thinking about the Methos/Kronos relationship, because it's so fascinating, and at the same time so repulsive. They weren't just brothers-in-arms, sharing the spoils of war. They shared a much darker bond, based on fear and need: Methos' fear, Kronos' need. 

I first got an idea about this from some dialogue in CaH.: Methos (ironically): "It's nice to feel wanted." Kronos: "Not want, need! A dozen times I tried to take up the old ways, but I failed. The others I rode with were trash, scum. I had no one to plan my raids, no one who understood the true use of terror. You were one of a kind, Methos, as we all were." The more I thought about this statement, the more it failed to ring true. Kronos needed Methos, yes, but not for the reasons he gave. Kronos had a brilliant mind of his own and was fully capable of plotting devious strategies, such as developing a virus to hold the world hostage, and the clever kidnapping of Cassandra. Nor do I believe Kronos needed lessons from Methos in the use of terror. Kronos wrote the book on the subject, and Methos was one of his victims. Instead, IMHO, Kronos needed Methos because being mean just wasn't as meaningful without someone special to share it with. Guess who Kronos chose? And as for why... 

Kronos was a sadist and a bully. He liked having power over others, and hurting people, preferably those who couldn't fight back. The Horsemen never attacked armies or fortresses. Their forte was slaughtering the weak and defenseless, and they neutralized any possible resistance with terrorist tactics and scary costumes. But for Kronos, mere killing, raping, and plundering were not enough. He needed an audience, a witness to his deeds, one with intelligence who could understand and appreciate every nuance of his cleverness and cruelty. Another Immie, of course. Mere nortals wouldn't do. And not just any Immie, either. Silas and Caspian were useful comrades, but Silas was too dull-witted, and Caspian such a psychopath that the beauty of Kronos' evil was wasted on him (for Caspian, cruelty was normal). Methos, however, was perfect. He had a brilliant and imaginative mind. He was a good deal more sensitive than the other two, although he did his best to conceal it. Plus, he had another weakness that gave Kronos total power over him: his intense survival instinct, which insured that he would always submit to Kronos rather than risk a fight he might lose. And Kronos never lost an opportunity to remind him that he would lose. Kronos never trusted Methos completely, but he could trust him on this: Methos would never challenge him because he wanted to go on living. For Methos, Kronos was the sum of all fear, the ruler of his personal hell. He was very much afraid of him, and Kronos knew that, and just loved it.

Kronos took great pleasure in tormenting and humiliating his "dearestbrother", forcing him to choose between killing others or being killed by Kronos, and reducing Methos to his own level. He played with Methos as a cat plays with its prey, for the sheer joy of watching him squirm. Methos, for his part, tried to suppress his reactions (as when Kronos took Cassandra from him), but Kronos saw through the deception, and enjoyed it all the more. He and Methos understood each other on a very profound level. In the double episodes, each seemed to know what the other was thinking, and they often finished each other's thoughts. They seemed closer than real brothers, almost like two halves of the same personality. Kronos said: "My dear brother, that's what makes you my perfect right arm--we think alike! We always have...I know you better than you know yourself." And that's another reason beside fear that kept Methos from killing his tormenter, because Kronos was almost a part of himself, his dark mirror in which he saw a reflection of himself he wished he could forget. His hatred for Kronos was hatred of himself. He confessed to Mac at the end of Rev6:8: "We were brothers, in arms, in blood, in everything but birth, and if I judged him worthy to die, I judged myself the same way."

The relationship between Kronos and Methos explains quite a lot of things we have observed about the ROG, his evasiveness, his secrecy, and his paranoia, his impatience with simplistic and conventional interpretations of honor and morality, and his manipulation of friend and foe alike. But it also sheds light on some of the good things he's done since we met him, like saving Mac's soul in Deliverance (Methos knew all too well what it was like to have an evil alter-ego), and his sympathy for Mac at the end of Valkyrie (when Mac was agonizing over having judged and killed Ingrid). And it also may help explain why he repeatedly saved Cassandra, knowing full well she'd never be grateful, or forgive, or forget, and would likely continue to hunt him down. It would have been so easy to let Silas kill her, and then take Silas out in the moments following the Quickening, thus eliminating two threats with little danger to himself. But I think he saw in her the victim he had once been, and gave her a chance to live. If Kronos was his brother in evil, she was his sister in suffering. By sparing her, he also spared himself, and took a step towards healing the scars left by his regrettable past.

There is a lot of disagreement among scholars about the interpretation of the white horse. In the Bible, this rider has a bow and a crown, and goes forth conquering. Methos had a mask and a sword, but the conquering part fits him and his cohorts to a T. Other interpretations of the rider on the white horse describe him variously as a Christ figure, an anti-christ figure, or as Mithras or Mitra, the Persian sun-god. (White is also the sacred color of the Persians, the bow is their weapon, and Mithras is associated with both white horses and a white bull. Plus he is sometimes called "invictus", which means unconquered, and the figure on the white horse is described in Revelation as a conqueror). I like this last interpretation, because the name of Mithras is sort of similar to Methos in the way it sounds, and there could have been a mixup. (Well, maybe not.) I think the important thing to keep in mind when dealing with legends is that legends may start out with a grain of truth, but they soon get embroidered upon and added to so that they no longer resemble the originals. The 4 Horsemen were thugs, plain and simple. If later generations decided to see them as God's judgement on the sinful world, I'm sure it delighted Kronos.

This came over quite a few of the mail lists this a.m.:

> I now have the scripts for CaH and Rev. I was going to type them up and put them on the MBB or my site, as well as a synopsis of both eps, to compare to.

> There is some great stuff missing from the episodes, but particularly

> " Kronos: You can't out-think me, Methos, and you can't out-fight me. And you sure as hell can't kill me.

> Methos: (murmurs) You think so.

> Kronos: You had your shot and you couldn't take it.

> The massive, ancient, rusted bolt that held Kronos in his prison. He tosses the bolt onto the table in front of Methos.

> Kronos: So you had your thousand years of study, while I had a thousand yearsof crusts of bread flung to me by the priests you left.

> Kronos' tone is pleasant, but the undercurrant is dangerous.

> Kronos: I wonder what your friend MacLeod thinks of you now?"

How could they just toss this on the floor?!

susanna

*mumbling about inflicting pain upon nearest inanimate object or nearest advertiser)